History of Chinese Studies

Welcome to the Project Website "History of Chinese Studies" by the International Chinese Studies Centre, Hunan Normal University, China.

Willkommen auf der Projekt-Website "Geschichte der Chinawissenschaften" des International Chinese Studies Centre, Hunan Normal-Universität, China.

History_of_Chinese_Studies Introduction and Chapter 1 Chapter 2 Chapter 3 Chapter 4 Chapter 5

欢迎

Table of Contents

ed. by Martin Woesler

every vol. is enriched by several contributors

vol. 1 by Prof. Collani for the early time (focus on missionaries) Also reflectively.

vol. 2 by Prof. Eberspächer on the time until the 18th century, Prof. Doering with a focus on philosophy and cultural studies

Prof. Datsishen, assistants: Vladislav Kruglov, Alena Pavlova (Russian Chinese Studies including Eastern European),

Margaret Chu (anglophone Chinese Studies [not yet US])

Martin Woesler (non-English and non-Russian European Chinese Studies) would have to cooperate on further volumes which may be sorted by

Intellectual History: Anna Lisa Ahlers?

vol. 3 1800-1850

vol. 4 1850-1914

volume editor Eberspaecher

vol. 5 1914-1949

vol. 6 1949-1966/76

vol. 7 1966/76-1989

Transition of China image from "stagnation" to "economic boom" and (approaches to) reasoning (e.g. Confucianism)

vol. 8 1989-2000

vol. 9 2000-2010

vol. 10 2010-2020

Rules

vol. editors: rules for the contributors of the volume

in every volume: self-perception/-'verortung' and organisation### der Sinologie in der Zeit

Kriterium für die Aufnahme/Beschreibung sollte die Relevanz sein, also statt Sinologen-Biographien die wichtigsten Forschungsbeiträge

Einteilung: Zäsuren

Fragestellungen: Schulen, Historische Entwicklungen, Diskurse, Erkenntnisfortschritt, klassische Sinologie und Gegenwarts-Chinastudien

Aufarbeitung auch von 'dunklen Kapiteln': westliche Sinologen schwenken rote Mao-Bibeln,

Gesamtschau: Themen, Werke (incl. Bedeutung, Rezeption), + Systemische Bezüge: Hermeneutik (Franke: Methodologisches Theorem; Unschuld: Warum arbeiten zu TCM nur Ärzte und keine Sinologen?), Sozialwissenschaften, Selbstperception der Disziplin

Contributors

• Margaret Chu
• Ole Doering
• Cord Eberspaecher
• Martin Woesler

etc.

Schedule

2017 first preparations and essays

2020 March 12, Editorial Board Meeting with Ole Döring, Cord Eberspächer, Martin Woesler

Introduction

Yao Cheng 姚诚

History of Chinese Studies - Introduction

When we define an academic category like "Chinese studies", we pay respect to the fact that the world historically has developed differently in different regions. Of course the world was far less connected than today, with slow carriers like horses and ships and often bad or risky infrastructure like roads.

汉学史——前言

在定义诸如“中国研究”之类的学术类别时，我们要尊重这一事实：从历史上看，全球不同地区发展轨迹不同。当然，那是马匹和船只等运输工具速度慢，马路等基础设施经常是破烂不堪或有造成事故的风险，当时世界的联系远比现在低。--Yao Cheng (talk) 14:54, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

在定义诸如“中国研究”之类的学术类别时，我们要尊重这一事实：从历史上看，全球不同地区发展轨迹不同。当然，那是马匹和船只等运输工具速度慢，马路等基础设施经常是破烂不堪或有造成事故的风险，当时世界的联系远没有现在紧密。--Wu Xiang (talk) 15:20, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Yao Jia 姚佳

Therefore it appears on first sight that these regions have developed their culture, their civilization and even first written languages on their own, independently. The oldest evidence of written civilizations, dating back around 3500 years BC, we find in the fertile crescent Mesopotamia with the clay tablets of the Sumerer. A little bit later there is evidence in Ancient Egypt, then in Proto-India and finally also in China. 因此，乍一看这些地区独立地发展了自己的文化、文明甚至最早的文字。最古老的文字文明的证据，可以追溯到公元前3500年左右，我们在美索不达米亚肥沃的新月地带发现了苏美尔人的泥板。不久后，人们在古埃及发现了佐证，然后是在原始印度，最后在中国也出现了​一些证据。--Yao Jia (talk) 00:18, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Yi Huan 易欢

But the more we explore history, the more fascinating evidence comes to light that these seemingly independently developing regions have had more trade relations and exchange of ideas than seems likely bearing in mind mobility: The Silk Road is not only rediscovered and reevaluated historically, but also rebuilt as a political agenda today. 但是，我们探究历史探究得越多，就会有显露更多振奋人心的证据，证明这些看似独立发展的区域，其实早有过贸易交往与思想交流，而且比我们以为的流动性大得多：从历史的角度来看，今天不仅是重新发现与重估了丝绸之路，并且将其重建为政治议程。--Yi Huan (talk) 07:04, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

但随着对历史探究的深入，有更多振奋人心的证据表明，这些看似独立发展的地区拥有的贸易关系和思想交流远比我们以为的流动性大得多。丝绸之路不仅是在历史上被重新发现和重新定位，而且如今已作为政治议程进行了重建。--Lin Xin (talk) 13:14, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Yi Zichu 义子楚

We today find early evidence of European civilizations in America and Asia as well as the Chinese civilization also in America and Europe.

Cultural Science is more influenced by its subject than other sciences, since we are part of it and cannot leave it to examine it. The history of cultural science has developed from the first times of intercultural encounters to today’s life, in which cultures are mixed and people understand each other as being part of different cultures simultaneously.

今天，我们发现了美洲和亚洲欧洲文明以及美洲和欧洲中华文明的早期证据。 与其他科学相比，文化科学受其学科影响更大，因为我们是文化科学的一部分，便不能利用它去研究其本身。文化科学的历史已经从第一次跨文化的相遇发展到今天的生活，在这种文化中，文化是混杂的，彼此理解的人们同时又是不同文化的一部分。--Yi Zichu (talk) 03:22, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

今天，我们发现了美洲和亚洲欧洲文明以及美洲和欧洲中华文明存在的早期证据。 与其他科学相比，文化科学受其学科影响更大。作为文化科学的一部分，我们不能利用它去研究其本身。文化科学的历史已经从第一次跨文化的相遇发展到今天的生活，在这种文化中，文化是混杂的，彼此理解的人们同时又是不同文化的一部分。--Yu Ni (talk) 13:27, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

You Yuting 游雨婷

However, there will always be differentiation between cultures, simply because the trends of integration and separation occur at the same time.

When there is different cultures, there is an interest in comparing these. This medal has two sides. As soon as you start to compare, you may value. Cultural encounters happened before there were experts or a whole discipline.

然而文化之间总是会有差异的，因为融合和分离的趋势是同时发生的。 当存在不同的文化时，比较这些文化是有意义的。这个奖牌有两面。一旦你开始比较，你可能会珍惜。文化交流发生在专家或整个学科出现之前。--You Yuting (talk) 13:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

然而，文化之间总是存在差异，只是因为融合和分离的趋势同时出现。 当存在不同的文化时，将这些文化做对比是有意义的。这枚奖牌有两面性。一旦你开始比较，你可能会重视。在文化专家或整个学科出现之前，文化交流就已经发生了。 --Zhang Ling (talk) 14:20, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

然而，文化之间总是存在差异，仅仅是因为融合和分离的趋势同时出现。 当存在不同的文化时，将这些文化做对比是有意义的。这枚奖牌有两面性。一旦你开始比较，你可能会重视。在文化专家或整个学科出现之前，文化交流就已经发生了。--Li Lingyue (talk) 04:34, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Yu Ni 余妮

So the first comparisons between cultures were ethnocentric: You compared whatever you encountered as “other”, “foreign” or “alien”, to your own culture. This was often accompanied with feelings. There was both, the feeling of fear of the unknown and curiosness in the exotic.

因此，第一次文化间的比较是种族中心主义的：你把你遇到的“其他的”、“外国的”或“异族的”文化与你自己的文化进行比较。这常常伴随着感情。既有对未知事物的恐惧感，又有异国风情中的好奇。--Yu Ni (talk) 13:16, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

因此，第一次文化比较是一种民族中心主义的体现：人们把所有认为是“其他的”、“外来的”或者“异域的”与本民族文化作比较。这种行为通常着伴随着两种感情，对未知的恐惧和对异族的好奇。--Wei Honglang (talk) 14:20, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Yuan Shiqi 袁诗琦

You may categorize civilizations into so-called “high civilizations” and “low civilizations”, into “developed” and “underdeveloped” cultures. This was an ethnocentric approach in the age of cultural relativism. Today in the age of post-growth economy and after tragic experiences of colonialization and missionization, we know that each culture is equal and cannot be ranked to be higher or lower, of more or less value than the other.

你可以把各种文明分为“高等文明”、“低等文明”、“发达文明”和“不发达文明”。这是文化相对主义时代的一种民族中心主义方法。在经济后增长的今天，在经历了殖民和传教的悲惨经历之后，我们知道，每一种文化都是平等的，不能比较，没有一种文化文化比另一种文化更高级或更低级、更具价值或更少价值。--Yuan SHiqi (talk) 08:00, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

你可以将文明划分为“高等文明”、“低等文明”、“发达文明”和“不发达文明”。这是文化相对主义时代民族中心主义的分法。人类在经历了殖民和传教的悲惨经历之后，在经济后增长的今天，我们知道，每一种文化都是平等的，没有高低贵贱之分。--Tan Yuanyuan (talk) 12:42, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Yuan Tianyi 袁天翼

While very early there were historians collecting knowledge from travel reports or official delegations visiting foreign cultures, in the middle ages handbooks collected the knowledge to describe different cultures. Even the Romans had words for the Chinese (Seres in the North and Sinae in the South) and attributed to Asian-looking people certain characteristics of behaviour, attitudes, value systems, beliefs, morals and character.

虽然很早以前，有历史学家从旅行报告中或者从政府代表团造访异域文化时候汲取知识，但是中世纪的时候指南书籍都是到处搜集知识来描述不同文化的。哪怕是罗马人也有描述中国人的词语（罗马北方称为Sere，南方称为Sinae），他们还把行为、态度、价值体系、信仰、道德和性格这些特定特征与长有亚洲外貌的人联系在一起。--Yuan Tianyi (talk) 10:08, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Yuan Yuchen 袁雨晨

The first in-depth analysis of the Chinese culture through Western people came not with the merchants, but with the Jesuits. How few was known about China can be seen from the fact, that only the Jesuits managed to clarify, that the myth of the two empires, Tartary and Kitai/Cathay, in fact both were the same (China).

首次通过西方人来深入分析中国文化，不是由商人发起的，而是耶稣会。过去鲜少有人真正了解中国，只有耶稣会设法澄清关于两个帝国的神话，实际上，鞑靼和契丹所指一样，都是指的中国。 --Yuan Yuchen (talk) 09:02, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

首次深入分析中国文化的西方人不是商人，而是耶稣信徒。了解中国的人有多么少，我们可以从这个事实中看出来：只有耶稣信徒能够分清鞑靼和契丹这两大帝国的神话。实际上这两者都是指中国。--Yuan Tianyi (talk) 10:43, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Zeng Fangyuan 曾芳缘

However, the Jesuit’s approach was still ethnocentric and cultural relativist, because by portraying (like Du Halde) China as a seemingly ideal state suitable for mission work, they contributed to subjective views on China.

然而，耶稣会的分析方法仍然带有种族中心主义和文化相对论的思想。因为通过将中国描绘成一个看起来像是适合进行宣教工作的理想国家（比如杜赫德神父的作品），他们对中国的观点带有主观色彩。--Zeng Fangyuan (talk) 10:43, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

然而，耶稣会士的分析方法仍然带有种族中心主义和文化相对主义的思想。因为他们带着主观色彩看待中国，所以将中国描绘成一个看似适合进行宣教的理想国度（比如杜赫德神父的作品）。--Zhang Yu (talk) 13:18, 13 November 2020 (UTC) 然而，耶稣会的分析方法仍然带有种族中心主义和文化相对论的思想。这是因为他们通过将中国描绘成一个看似适合进行传教工作的理想国度（如杜赫德神父），以至于对中国的观点往往带有主观的色彩。--Chen Jiangning (talk) 08:13, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Zeng Liang 曾良

Around 1720 presumably the French Jesuit Jean-François Noëlas even translated the Dao de jing into Latin.[ Collani, Claudia von, Harald Holz, Konrad Wegmann eds. Uroffenbarung und Daoismus: jesuitische Missionshermeneutik des Daoismus. Europ. University Press, 2008. [Partial retranslation Chinese-Latin-German.]] The translation turns out to deviate from the original in the way that we suddenly find the Christian trinity god in it.

大约在1720年法国人让·弗朗索瓦·诺埃拉斯甚至将《道德经》翻译为拉丁语。结果证明，译文背离了原文，我们突然在其中发现基督教三位一体的上帝。--Zeng Liang (talk) 09:14, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

1720年左右，一位名叫让·弗朗索瓦·诺埃拉斯的法国人甚至将《道德经》翻译成了拉丁文。但他的翻译背离了原文，因为我们突然发现译文中出现了基督教三位一体的上帝。--Ouyang Ling (talk) 14:03, 15 November 2020 (UTC)Ouyang Ling

Zeng Xinyuan 曾心媛

This is the starting point of an ethnocentric tradition to read the self and the own into the other and the alien, instead of respecting the other as a value by itself and allowing it to even challenge the own beliefs. Even the German Christian missionary and sinologist Richard Wilhelm used a Christian language (belief, heavens’ doors, life after death etc.) in his influential 1919 Taoteking translation and in 1925 he translated “god” into the Analects of Confucius.

这就是种族中心主义的起点，即把自身文化强加于其他文化及外国文化，而非尊重其他文化自身价值，甚至允许其他文化挑战自身信仰。甚至于德国基督教传教士及汉学家理查德•威廉，在其1919年具有影响力的《道德经》译本中使用了基督教语言（信仰、天堂之门、永生等），在1925年在翻译《论语》时加入“上帝”一词。--Zeng Xinyuan (talk) 09:07, 15 November 2020 (UTC) 这是民族中心主义的开始，它将自己的文化强加给其它的文化，既不不尊重其他文化的自身价值，也不允许其他文化挑战自己的信仰。甚至德国基督教传教士兼汉学家理查德•威廉，在他1919年颇具影响的《道教经》译文中使用了基督教的语言（信仰、天堂之门、永生等），且在他1925年翻译的《论语》中也加入了“上帝”一词。--Yang Yi (talk) 04:29, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Zeng Yanhu 曾雁湖

The missionaries baptized the seemingly “backward” aborigines in several continents, sometimes supported by the sword. A lot of cultures, considered less “developed”, were heavily influenced or even destroyed and extinguished. Earlier, the “Warriors of the Cross” even fought wars and devastated complete regions.

传教士在一些大洲为看似“落后”的原住民洗礼，有时是因为武力的加持。 许多被认为不那么“发达”的文化受到了严重的影响，甚至被摧毁和灭绝。早些时候，“穿越勇士们”甚至进行了战争，摧毁了整个地区。--Fancy (talk) 08:43, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

传教士在一些大洲为看似“落后”的原住民洗礼，有时还得到武力支持。 许多被认为不那么“发达”的文化受到了严重影响，甚至被摧毁和灭绝。 早些时候，“十字架上的战士”甚至进行了战争，摧毁了整个地区。--Yang Yue (talk) 09:23, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Hu 张虎

The other aspect, the exotization of the other was expressed by the way the first Chinese people who came to Europe were received: They were passed on at tea meetings and gazed at like animals. Soon Chinese goods became the symbol of the exotic. Chinese porcellain and nick-nacks, even Chinese-style buildings were recreated in Europe.

另一方面，异国化表现在第一批来到欧洲的中国人受到的接待方式上:他们在茶会上被传下来，像动物一样被注视。很快，中国商品成为异国情调的象征。中国的瓷器和小装饰品，乃至中式建筑都在欧洲得到了重现。--Blank (talk) 03:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC) 另一方面，作为第一批来到欧洲的中国人，他者的异域化表现在他们所受到的接待方式上：他们成为了茶会上的谈资，像动物一样被凝视着。很快中国货成为了异国情调的象征。中国的瓷器和小装饰品，甚至中国风格的建筑都在欧洲重现。--Kang Lingfeng (talk) 06:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Hui 张慧

The fever-like admiration of a China image, which certainly was not the true China, is called Chinoiserie. The Chinoiserie even involved European philosophers like Voltaire and Leibniz, who compared China to an ideal country without religion and still moral values, represented by a wise emperor.

对中国形象的狂热崇拜，当然不是真正的中国，被称为中国风。 中国艺术甚至与伏尔泰和莱布尼兹（Leibniz）之类的欧洲哲学家相提并论，他们将中国比作一个没有宗教信仰和道德价值观的理想国家，以一个明智的皇帝为代表。--Zhang Hui (talk) 07:46, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

对中国形象的狂热崇拜被称为“中国风”,这当然不是真正的中国。甚至连伏尔泰和莱布尼茨这样的欧洲哲学家也认同这种中国风这种观念，他们把中国比作一个没有宗教和道德价值观的理想国家，由一个明智的皇帝代表。--You Yuting (talk) 13:44, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

对中国形象的狂热崇拜被称为“中国风”,当然这并不是真正的中国。甚至连伏尔泰和莱布尼茨这样的欧洲哲学家也追逐中国风，他们把中国比作一个没有宗教信仰和道德价值，只以开明君主为代表的理想国度。--Zhang Yujie (talk) 09:27, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

对中国形象的狂热崇拜，当然不是真正的中国，被称为中国风。像伏尔泰和莱布尼茨这样的欧洲哲学家也认同这种中国风这种观念，他们把中国比作一个没有宗教和道德价值观的理想国家，由一个明智的皇帝代表。--Zhang Peiwen (talk) 12:29, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Ling 张玲

In Europe, the first experts on Chinese culture were entrusted with the task to explain the Chinese culture no longer from the ethnocentric viewpoint, but from a scientific one: Professorships at universities were established. Their early translations show traces of admiration of the exotic. Chinoiserie was also countered by Européerie in China. However, this phase did only last as long as it fit to European politics.

在欧洲，第一批研究中国文化的专家被委以重任，不再从民族中心主义的观点来解释中国文化，而是从科学的角度来解释: 大学里设立了教授职位。他们早期的翻译显示出对异国情调的赞赏。在中国的欧洲人也反对“中国风”。然而，这一阶段只会在符合欧洲政治的情况下持续。 --Zhang Ling (talk) 14:12, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

在欧洲，第一批研究中国文化的专家被委以重任，她们开始不再从民族中心主义的观点，而是从科学的角度来解释中国文化：在大学里设立了教授职位。他们早期的翻译显示出对异国情调的赞赏。在中国的欧洲人也反对“中国风”。然而，这一阶段只会在符合欧洲政治的情况下持续。--Yao Cheng (talk) 14:58, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

在欧洲，第一批研究中国文化的专家被委以重任，不再从民族中心的角度解释中国文化，而是从科学的角度解释中国文化：大学教授职位的设立。他们早期的翻译表现出对异国风情的赞赏。在中国的欧洲人也反对“中国风”。然而，这一阶段只会在它适合欧洲政治时持续。--Zhao Xi (talk) 12:15, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Peiwen 张佩闻

As soon as the import of colonial goods (and resources) became an economic factor, the (wrong) image of the ideal China changed into a negative one (similarly wrong). Not only mission and belief were motifs to look down on the Chinese culture, but also the comparison of economic development and living standards. 把进口殖民商品作为经济来源会有损中国的积极形象使命和信仰会蔑视中国文化，也是比较经济发展和生活水平的动机。人们不仅会看不起中国文化所弘扬的理念和信仰，也会嘲笑中国人生活水平跟不上经济发展。--Zhang Peiwen (talk) 12:25, 15 November 2020 (UTC) 一旦殖民商品(和资源)的进口成为一个经济因素，(错误的)理想中国形象就变成了一个负面形象(同样错误的)。使命和信仰不仅是蔑视中国文化的理由，也是比较经济发展和生活水平的依据。--Yao Jia (talk) 00:19, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Qi 张琪

Hegel continued the ethnocentric view on China with his ranking of cultures. Although Confucius already had developed a “Golden Rule” principle comparable to Kant’s “Categorical Imperative”, Hegel declared Chinese philosophy as inferior to European philosophy, and even saw a geographical step by step development from Confucius over Buddha, Zarathustra, the ancient Greek and the Roman philosophy, leading to the European philosophy.

黑格尔通过其文化排名继续保持对中国的民族主义观点。尽管孔子已经制定了可与康德的“绝对命令”相媲美的“黄金法则”原则，但黑格尔却宣称中国哲学不如欧洲哲学，即使看到孔子和佛陀，扎拉特胡斯特拉，古希腊和古罗马哲学这些促进欧洲哲学发展的逐步发展。--Zhangqi (talk) 15:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Weihong 张维虹

A ladder only second by the Arab philosophy. At the turn from the 19th to the 20th century, China was suddenly considered as static, as “the sick man of Asia”. Actually semi-colonialism in China helped to hinder development there.

这一阶梯仅次于阿拉伯哲学。19世纪到20世纪之交，人们认为中国一时停滞了，是 "东亚病夫"。但其实中国的半殖民主义进一步阻碍了其发展。

Zhang Xueyi 张雪仪

Rereading the reviews of Chinese literature in contemporary Western journals, it is astonishing, how disrespectful even men of letters treated Chinese literature, even during a time, when it was not yet available in translation, so that it is save to say that ethnocentric attitude prevailed over knowledge.

重读当代西方期刊上关于中国文学的评论，令人吃惊的是，即使是在还没有译文的时期，就连文学家都对中国文学充满了不尊重，可以说民族优越感压倒了知识。--Zhang Xueyi (talk) 13:32, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

重读当代西方期刊上对中国文学的评论后，感到惊讶的是，即使是文人也会如此不尊重地对待中国文学，即使是在还没有翻译的时代，以至于只能说，民族中心主义的态度压倒了知识。--Blank (talk) 03:42, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

对当代西方期刊关于中国文学的评论重读，吃惊的是，即使是在还没有译文的时期，就连文学家都对中国文学充满了不尊重，可以说民族优越感压倒了知识。--Zhangqi (talk) 05:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Yinliu 张银柳

This can be proven by the many mistakes you can find in the reviews (Morrison: the book was of low literary quality, but written in Peking dialect and therefore useful as language learning material; Gützlaff: the protagonist Baoyu is a petulant woman; Giles: the words “Red Chamber Dreams do not appear in the book” etc.). Also, the tradition of the title translation as “Dream of the Red Chamber” can be traced back to the origins of the better translation as “Red Chamber Dreams”, sacrificed by Francis Davis finally in favor of the powerful tool of Morrison’s dictionary calling it “Dream of the Red Chamber”.

这可以通过您在评论中发现的许多错误来证明（Morrison：这本书的文学素质很低，但是用北京话写的，因此可以用作语言学习材料;Gützlaff：主角宝玉是一个脾气暴躁的女人; Giles： 文字“红楼梦没有出现在书中”等）。 同样，标题翻译的传统是“红楼梦”，其源头可以追溯到更好的翻译作“红楼梦”，最终因弗朗西斯·戴维斯（Francis Davis）为支持莫里森词典中的强大工具而做出，译为“红楼梦”。--Zhang Yinliu (talk) 07:26, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Yu 张瑜

Here, the exotic was used to make fun of China. Barrow introduces an excerpt, describing the outward appearance of Baoyu and Xifeng, translated by Francis Davis into English, explicitely for the reason to “amuse the beaux and belles”. Francis Davis himself picks two poems from the novel for translation, but not for its own sake, but to use them as a proof for his own (minority) opinion that the Chinese poetry knew a certain, “descriptive” function of poems in novels.

在这里，这种异域文化常用来取笑中国。巴罗引用了一段描述宝玉和熙凤外貌的文本，弗朗西斯·戴维斯将其翻译成英文版本，很明显其意图是取笑书中的“美人”。弗朗西斯·戴维斯从小说中选了两首诗进行翻译，但他不仅仅是为了这两首诗，而是为了用这两首诗证明自己（少数人）的观点，他认为我们对中国诗有一定了解之后，我们就自然会了解诗歌在小说中的描述性作用。--Zhang Yu (talk) 13:01, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

在这里，异国情调被用来取笑中国。巴罗引用了一段描述宝玉和熙凤外表的片段，由弗朗西斯·戴维斯翻译成英文，显然是为了取笑“书中的美人”。弗朗西斯·戴维斯本人从小说中挑选了两首诗进行翻译，但不是为了诗本身，而是为了证明他自己(少数人)的观点，即他认为我们对中国诗深入了解之后，我们一定会发现中国诗歌在小说中的某种“描写”功能。--Xiao yining (talk) 06:54, 15 November 2020 (UTC)Xiao Yining

Zhang Yujie 张毓婕

In 1815 Macao Reverend Robert Morrison (1782-1834) coined the Western translation of the novel’s title by mentioning it in his Dictionary of the Chinese Language as “dreams of the red chamber.”[ He explained the character “妙” as in the novel’s character “妙玉 Meaou yǔh [Miao Yu]” as “the admirable gem, name of one of the female characters in the novel called 紅樓夢 the dreams of the red chamber”, see Robert Morrison: A Dictionary of the Chinese language in three parts, Macao: East India Company Press 1815, vol. I., 930 pp., here p. 614, left column. 24 years after the print edition was published, this is the first mention and translation of the novel’s title into a Western language known so far. If no earlier occurrence is found it means that Morrison created a translation which has lasted until today almost unchanged.]

1815年，澳门神父罗伯特·莫里森（Robert Morrison，1782-1834年）在《中国词典》中将《红楼梦》的标题译为“dreams of the red chamber”，这是《红楼梦》小说标题的第一个英译版本。他解释了“妙”字，认为小说中人物“妙玉Meaouyǔh[Miao Yu]意为“令人敬佩的宝石，这是《红楼梦》小说中的一个女性人物的名字”。罗伯特·莫里森的词典分三个部分介绍了中国语言，澳门：东印度公司出版社1815年，第一卷。 I.，930 pp。，此处p。 614，左栏。 印刷版出版24年后，出现了迄今已知的最早的对红楼梦标题的西译版本。 如果未发现更早的记录，则意味着莫里森创造了一直持续到今天几乎不变的对《红楼梦》标题的英译方法。--Zhang Yujie (talk) 09:13, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

1815年，澳门神父罗伯特·莫里森（Robert Morrison，1782-1834年）在《中国词典》中将《红楼梦》的标题译为“dreams of the red chamber”，这是《红楼梦》小说标题的第一个英译版本。他解释了“妙”字，认为小说中人物“妙玉Meaouyǔh[Miao Yu]意为“令人敬佩的宝石，这是小说《紅樓夢》中一个女性人物的名字”。罗伯特·莫里森的词典分三个部分介绍了中国语言，澳门：东印度公司出版社1815年，第一卷。 I.，930页，此处614页，左栏。 印刷版出版24年后，出现了迄今已知的最早的对红楼梦标题的西译版本。 如果未发现更早的记录，则意味着莫里森创造性地翻译了《红楼梦》标题，且直到今天也几乎未变。--Zhang Yuxing (talk) 02:53, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Yuxing 张宇星

In 1815 Macao Reverend Robert Morrison (1782-1834) coined the Western translation of the novel’s title by mentioning it in his Dictionary of the Chinese Language as “dreams of the red chamber.”[ He explained the character “妙” as in the novel’s character “妙玉 Meaou yǔh [Miao Yu]” as “the admirable gem, name of one of the female characters in the novel called 紅樓夢 the dreams of the red chamber”, see Robert Morrison: A Dictionary of the Chinese language in three parts, Macao: East India Company Press 1815, vol. I., 930 pp., here p. 614, left column. 24 years after the print edition was published, this is the first mention and translation of the novel’s title into a Western language known so far. If no earlier occurrence is found it means that Morrison created a translation which has lasted until today almost unchanged.] He chose the plural, which was quite reasonable as there are many dreams in the novel. It appears that 27 years later the plural “dreams” was turned into the singular “dream,” which sounds a bit more general and is therefore also a reasonable translation. Red Chamber Dreams is the most common translation in English and, in its variations, in all Western languages so far.

1815年，澳门神父罗伯特·莫里森（Robert Morrison，1782-1834年）在《中国词典》中将《红楼梦》的标题译为“dreams of the red chamber”，这是《红楼梦》小说标题的第一个英译版本。他解释了“妙”字，认为小说中人物“妙玉Meaouyǔh[Miao Yu]意为“令人敬佩的宝石，这是小说《紅樓夢》小说中一个女性人物的名字”。罗伯特·莫里森的词典分三个部分介绍了中国语言，澳门：东印度公司出版社1815年，第一卷。 I.，930页，此处614页，左栏。 印刷版出版24年后，出现了迄今已知的最早的对红楼梦标题的西译版本。 如果未发现更早的记录，则意味着莫里森创造性地翻译了《红楼梦》标题，且直到今天也几乎未变。他选择比较合理的复数形式，因为小说中有很多梦。 27年后，复数形式“dreams”变成了单数形式“dream”，比较笼统，故也是合理的。Red Chamber Dreams是迄今为止最常见的英文译本，其变体，即Red Chamber Dream，也是西方语言中最常见的译本。--Zhang Yuxing (talk) 02:52, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhao Xi 赵茜

He chose the plural, which was quite reasonable as there are many dreams in the novel. It appears that 27 years later the plural “dreams” was turned into the singular “dream,” which sounds a bit more general and is therefore also a reasonable translation. Red Chamber Dreams is the most common translation in English and, in its variations, in all Western languages so far.

他选择了复数，这是非常合情合理的，因为在小说中有很多的梦想。似乎27年后，复数的“梦想(dreams)”变成了单数的“梦想(dream)”，这听起来更加笼统，因此也是个合理的翻译。在英文中，在所有的变体中，在所有的西方语言中，“Red Chamber Dreams（《红楼梦》）”是迄今为止最常见译本。--Zhao Xi (talk) 01:27, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

他选择了复数，因为在小说中有很多梦境，这是很合理的。似乎在27年后，复数“dreams”变成了单数“dream”，这听起来更笼统一些，因此也是一个合理的翻译。“Red Chamber Dreams” 是迄今为止在所有西方语言中，在所有的译本中，最常见的英文译本。--Zhou Luoping (talk) 02:29, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

他选择了复数形式是很合理的，因为小说中有很多的梦。似乎在27年后，复数的“梦”变成了单数的“梦”，听起来更笼统，因此也是一种合理的翻译。“Red Chamber Dreams”（《红楼梦》）是迄今为止英语中最常见的翻译版本，是所有西方语言的变体形式。--Zhou Shuyao (talk) 02:37, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhao Xiaoyan 赵晓燕

In 1817 Rev. Robert Morrison published a book for studying Chinese,[ Robert Morrison, A view of China for philological purposes: containing a sketch of Chinese Chronology, Geography, Government, Religion & Customs, designed for the use of persons who study the Chinese language, Macao: East Asia Company Press, 1817, 141 S., hier S. 120-121.] in which he recommended “Dreams of the Red Chamber” as beginner readings, together with the novel Hao qiu zhuan, which was available mostly in English and partly in Portuguese by 1719, and fully in English by 1761. Both were written in colloquial style.

1817年，罗伯特·莫里森牧师出版了一本研究汉语的书，[罗伯特·莫里森，从语言学的角度看中国：包含中国年表，地理，政府，宗教和习俗的梗概，旨在供学习汉语的人使用。 澳门：东亚公司出版社，1817年，141 S.，hier S. 120-121。]，其中他推荐《红楼梦》作为初学者阅读，包括小说《好逑传》，这本小说到1719年大部分都是用英语撰写，部分用葡萄牙语撰写，到1761年全部变成了英文版。两种语言都是口语化的。--Zhao Xiaoyan (talk) 07:33, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

1817年，启罗伯特·莫里森牧师出版了一本学习中文的书,[罗伯特·莫里森,从语言学的角度看中国:包含中国年表、地理、政府、宗教和习俗,旨在供学习汉语的人使用,澳门:东亚公司出版社,1817年,141 S., hier S. 120-121.] 在这本书中，他推荐《红楼梦》和小说《好逑传》作为初学者读物。到1719年，《好逑传》主要以英文出版，部分以葡萄牙文出版，到1761年完全以英文出版。两者都是用口语化的。--Zhang Hui (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Zheng Huajun 郑华君

Morrison claims that Dream was written in Peking dialect. This does not hold true, since the author’s family Cao came from the South and many people in the novel have Nanking dialect sprinkles. In fact, the highly artful and intentional switch of dialects and sociolects contributed to the later fame of the novel. Morrison’s mistake developed its own tradition.[ Even in 1995, you could read that the Dreams is written in Peking dialect, cf. Shu Changshan, Die Rezeption Thomas Manns in China, 1995, Frankfurt: Lang, 326 pp. At least Tong Yao, Die Vielfältigkeit der Literatur, 2006 mentions both Peking and Nanking dialects.]

莫里森声称《梦》是用北京方言写成的。但事实并非如此，因为作者曹家来自南方，小说中的许多人物都有南京方言的点缀。事实上，方言和社会语的高度巧妙和有意的转换为这部小说后来的名声做出了贡献。莫里森的错误发展了自己的传统。[即使在1995年，大家也可以读到“《梦》是用北京方言写的”，参见舒长山、托马斯·曼斯的《中国的梦》（1995），法兰克福:朗，326页。至少佟耀《文学之声》（2006）同时提到了北京方言和南京方言。]--Zheng Huajun (talk) 05:23, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

莫里森声称《红楼梦》是用北京方言写的，但事实并非如此。因为作者所在的曹氏家族来自南方，而小说中许多人物也都夹杂了一些零碎的南京方言。事实上，后来这部小说名声大噪，也都离不开小说中方言与社会语言之间及其巧妙而又有意为之的语言转换。而莫里森的错误也延续下来形成传统了。[甚至在1995年，我们仍会读到说《红楼梦》是用北京方言写的。参见舒长山、托马斯•曼斯的《中国的梦》（1995），法兰克福：朗，326页。至少佟耀《文学之声》(2006)则同时提及了北京方言和南京方言。]--Yi Huan (talk) 07:54, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhou Luoping 周罗平

Barrow mentioned the title “[...] a Chinese novel called Hung-low-Mung, or, The Red Chamber Dreams” on June 4, 1819, in the Quarterly Review. He inserted this reference into a review[ My own findings, so far not discussed in 20th century hongxue, and published first in October 2010. John Barrow, “Art. IV Narrative of a Journey in the Interior of China, and of a Voyage to and from that Country, in the Years 1816 and 1817; containing an Account of the most interesting Transactions of Lord Amherst's Embassy to the Court of Pekin, and Observations on the Countries which it visited. By Clarke Abel F.L.S. London 1818”, in: William Gifford ed., Quarterly Review 21:41 (January 1819) S. 67-91, hier S. 79-80. This edition appeared (only by) June 4, 1819 with 13,000 copies. The author follows here the argumentation of the assignment to the author Barrow due to the following indications: “Gentleman's Magazine (Mar. 1844), 246-47. The article's author refers to #415 and #438 (including a specific reference), both of which are on the same topic and are by Barrow. Cf. also the discussion of infanticide (p. 76) and Raffles's account of Java reviewed by Barrow in #422. In his Q[uarterly] R[eview] articles, it was Barrow's signature practice to refer to his own works, see “Quarterly Review Archive” http://www.rc.umd.edu/ reference/qr/index/41.html, last visited March 10, 2018.] of Clarke Abel’s report of a journey through China.[ Clarke Abel, Narrative of a Journey in the Interior of China, and of a Voyage to and from that Country, in the Years 1816 and 1817; containing an Account of the most interesting Transactions of Lord Amherst's Embassy to the Court of Pekin, and Observations on the Countries which it visited, F.L.S. London 1818.]

巴罗提到书名“[……《红楼梦》，1819年6月4日在《季刊》上发表的。他在一篇评论中引用了这篇文章 [ 我自己的发现，到目前为止还没有在20世纪的红学中讨论过，并于2010年10月首次发表。约翰·巴罗《艺术》四系列中关于一八一六年和一八一七年在中国内地的旅行和往返中国的航行的叙述;其中记载了阿默斯特勋爵派往北京朝廷的最有趣的事务，以及他访问过的国家的观察。By Clarke Abel F.L.S. London 1818”, in: William Gifford ed., Quarterly Review 21:41 (January 1819) S. 67-91, hier S. 79-80. 这个版本出版(到1819年6月4日)有13000册。以下是作者对指派给作者巴罗的任务的论证，理由如下:“绅士杂志(1844年3月)，246-47。本文作者引用了#415和#438(包括一个特定的引用)，它们都是关于同一个主题，都是巴罗写的。另外巴罗在第422页评论了关于杀婴的讨论和莱佛士对爪哇的描述。在他的文章中，巴罗的标志性做法是提及自己的作品，参见“季度评论档案”http://www.rc.umd.edu/ reference/qr/index/41。html，上次访问于2018年3月10日中克拉克·阿贝尔关于中国之旅的报道。[克拉克·阿贝尔，《1816年和1817年在中国内地的一次旅行和一次往返中国的航行》;书中记述了阿默斯特勋爵派往北京朝廷的一些最有趣的事务，以及访问过的一些国家的见闻，载于1818年伦敦《F.L.S.》。--Zhou Luoping (talk) 02:11, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhou Shiqing 周诗卿

He interrupted his review with an excursus on the uniform appearance and static nature of the Chinese, in line with the contemporary China-bashing of Herder and Hegel. For contemporary Europeans, the Chinese appeared abnormally uniform and simple in their clothes and appearance.

Zhou Shuyao 周书尧

They would not be subordinated to the tyranny of fashion; their culture was static. In order to entertain the “belles and beaux of Great Britain,” Barrow provides a foil to this general impression by quoting the descriptions of the garments and anatomy of two characters, Wang Xifeng and Jia Baoyu, from chapter 3 of J. Davis’ translation of Dream.

他们不会服从时尚专制，他们的文化是静态的。 为了娱乐“不列颠的淑女和绅士”，巴罗通过引用戴维斯的《梦》译本第3章中对两个角色王熙凤和贾宝玉的服装与解剖学的描述，为这种总体印象锦上添花。--Zhou Shuyao (talk) 02:27, 15 November 2020 (UTC) 他们不会屈从于时尚专制，他们的文化是静止的。为了满足“英国淑女和绅士”，约翰•巴罗引用了约翰•弗朗西斯•戴维斯《红楼梦》翻译的第三回里面小说人物王熙凤和贾宝玉的着装和相貌描写,为衬托这种一般印象。--Tan Xinjie (talk) 11:55, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhou Siqing 周思庆

In fact the graphic comparisons given in these descriptions were simply strange to Europeans of that time, since they apparently did not correspond to the European’s own ideal of beauty. Even in 1842 Gützlaff criticized: “the author [makes] many protestations of his inability to do justice to the subject, which indeed is the only truth in the book […] the style is without any art […] whosoever wishes to familiarize himself with the manner of speaking the northern court dialect, may peruse this work with advantage”[ “Amongst the novels of the Chinese, this work holds a decidedly high rank. The author, after making many protestations of his inability to do justice to the subject, which indeed is the only truth in the book […] Having brought this tedious story to a conclusion, in expressing our opinion about the literary merits of the performance, we may say that the style is without any art, being literally the spoken language of the higher classes in the northern provinces. Some words that are used in a sense different from that in ordinary writings, and others are formed for the occasion, to express provincial sounds. But after reading one volume the sense is easily understood, and whosoever wishes to familiarize himself with the manner of speaking the northern court dialect, may peruse this work with advantage.” ibid., p. 273.] 事实上，这些描述中的形象对比对当时的欧洲人来说很奇怪，因为它们显然不符合欧洲人自己对美的理想。 甚至1842年吉士笠批评道:“作者(使)许多人抗议说他不能做正义的主题,这是在书中唯一的真理[…]这风格没有任何艺术[…]凡希望熟悉法院北部方言说话口气的人,可以详细考察这个有优势的作品”(“在中国的小说,这作品绝对排名靠前。作者在许多人抗议说他不能公平对待之后,这确实是在书中唯一的真理[…]总结一下这个乏味的故事，关于文学价值表现表达我们的意见,我们可以说风格即没有任何艺术,是北部省份字面上更高的口语层次。有些词在某种意义上不同于普通文字，有些词则是为了表达地方的声音而专门造出来的。但是，读完一卷之后，这种意义就很容易理解了，任何想熟悉北方宫廷方言的人，都可以读一下这本书，从中获益。"同上，第273页。]--Zhou Siqing (talk) 11:34, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhou Yiwen 周艺文

In 1867, 78 years after the first Chinese printed edition, we find a first real in-depth review of two pages by William Frederick Mayers:[ William Frederick Mayers, in: Notes and Queries (Dec 31, 1867) pp. 167-168, here p. 167. Mayers was Chinese secretary of the British Legation at Peking. He gives also short extracts in translation: “Vast as is Heaven above or Earth below – Sighs may such limits fill for passion vainly past Grieve for the senseless youth, the hapless maiden’s woe ! Not oft is love’s light pledge redeem’ed at last ! ” (p. 167) […] Vain to be soft in temper, mild in ways, Fair as the fairest … (p. 168) […] Not often shines thy longings too are vain ! ” (p. 168)].]

在1867年，也就是第一本中文版出版78年后，我们发现了威廉·弗雷德里克·迈尔斯第一次真正深入的评论，有两页纸那么长。（《备忘和查询》（1867，12月31）中记载，迈尔斯是英国驻北京公使馆的中国秘书。他还摘录了一些简短的译文: “苍苍穹苍，茫茫大地—— 但愿这无限的叹息填满激情的往昔， 为无谓的青春悲叹，为不幸少女悲哀!” 爱情的轻誓终不能兑现!“(167页)[……] 性情温和，行为温顺，美如天至，都是枉然……(168页) [……] 你的渴望并非时常闪耀，也枉然!”(168页)]。)--Zhou Yiwen (talk) 11:00, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhou Yuanqu 周园曲

“If it be lawful to avow a feeling approaching to enthusiasm for any Chinese production, The Hung Low Mêng 紅樓夢 or ‘Dreams of the Red Chamber’ is beyond possibility of cavil the work for which genuine admiration may be expressed. What, in English literature, the writings of Thackeray and Bulwer are in comparison with the wearisome and unskilful productions of previous generations, such is the Hung Low Mêng when compared with the works of fiction that have emanated from other Chinese authors.

如果能够依法公开宣布我们对于任何一部中国作品近乎狂热的喜爱，红楼梦将无可挑剔地成为一部最值得对其倾诉真挚仰慕之情的作品。英国文学中，萨克雷和布尔沃的之前的作品与萨克雷和沃尔本人的作品相比显得乏味而笨拙，中国其他作家的作品和《红楼梦》相比也是如此。--Zhou Yuanqu (talk) 09:29, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhou Yujuan 周玉娟

manated from other Chinese authors. Human character in its complex variety of shades, the intricacies of family relations, the force of passion and the torture of disappointed yearnings after love are pourtrayed with a degree of skill and knowledge such as in truth suggests a resemblance with the two great master-spirits of English romance; whilst, as in Nature's own drama of existence, the reflections of storm and sunshine are closely interlaced, and the lighter thread of comedy runs side by side with the dark main-strand of a story which opens with the omens of sorrow and is conducted to a tearful end. If, at the same time, a faint – a very faint – tinge of the supernatural is allowed to show itself in the conception of the tale, this is not only in full accord with the inclinations of the people for whom the work is written, but is also far less obtrusive than the similar element which pervades more than one of our own most celebrated fictions. […]” Reading through almost 80 years of reviews, during which more and more chapters of the novel became available, the ethnocentric attitude gradually changes to the scientific one and finally, with Mayr’s review of 1867 to a dialectic one, not only admitting that the Chinese novel was a piece of world literature, but even leaving open the possibility that it surpassed literary achievements of the own culture. This process certainly has been brought to a good end with the establishment of further diversified Chinese Studies in Europe and the USA, with the role of overseas Chinese at American universities, with further translations especially through Franz Kuhn in the 1930s and with the establishment of the German China Association in the 1950s. 由其他中国作家授权。人性具有多种多样的色调，复杂的家庭关系，激情的力量以及对恋爱后的失望和所受的折磨，都带有一定程度的技能和知识，诸如英国浪漫史，实际上暗示着这两种伟大的大师精神的相似之处 ；同时，就像自然界存在自身的戏剧一样，暴风雨和阳光的反映紧密交织在一起，喜剧的轻松线索与故事的黑暗主线并肩而行，故事以悲伤的征兆开始，并以泪收场。如果同时允许在故事的概念中表现出淡淡的（极其淡的）超自然色彩，这不仅完全符合这本书所面向的读者的喜好，而且也远没有我们自己的一部最著名的小说中普遍存在的类似元素那么引人注目。

[…]””

阅读80年的大多数评论,在此期间,越来越多的小说章节可供借鉴,民族中心主义的态度最终逐渐改变为科学,梅尔（Mayr）对1867年的评论是一种辩证法，它不仅承认中国小说是世界文学作品中的一部分，而且甚至没有公开其超越自身文化的文学成就的可能性。随着在欧洲和美国建立更多多元化的中文研究，在美国大学中扮演海外华人的角色，特别是在1930年代通过Franz Kuhn进行的进一步翻译以及 1950年代的中德协会的建立。--ZHOUYUJUAN (talk) 12:27, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhu Meimei 祝美梅

During its 60 years of history, the German China Association (next to the developing chairs of Chinese Studies at universities and next to other organizations dealing with China like friendship associations and Confucius Institutes) has helped to overcome prejudices, cultural relativism with diversity and tolerance. This is especially challenging, because the cultures and languages are quite distant and German media and internet community tends to bash China.

在60多年的历史中，德中协会（次于正在发展中的大学里的中国研究主席，也次于其他与中国共事的组织，如友谊协会和孔子学院）帮助克服了偏见，具有多样性和宽容性的文化相对论。 这尤其具有挑战性，因为文化和语言相距遥远，而且德国媒体和互联网社区倾向于抨击中国。--Zhumeimei (talk) 15:50, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhu Suyao 朱素瑶

During the last 20 years, the German China Association was shaped through its prolific president, Gregor Paul, who has shaped the prestige of the Association with his sharp and precise analysis of a common logic in China and the West as well as universal values, including human rights, worth to strive for both in the West and in China. His entertaining and informative lectures used a rhethoric often referring to persuasive conventional wisdom, e.g. that differences often come from different opinions instead of a difference of the nature of the things, as can be seen from a quarrel with his wife about what both remembered had happened the day before.

在过去20年间，德中协会是由其多产的主席格雷戈·保罗所塑造，他通过尖锐又精准地分析中西方的共同逻辑，以及分析包括中西方都值得为之奋斗的人权在内的普世价值，从而树立了协会的威望。他运用修辞手法进行寓教于乐的演讲，往往是关于一些具有说服力的传统大智慧。比如，分歧往往源于观点的不同而非事物性质的不同，这点从保罗和其妻子关于昨天发生之事的争论中可看出。--Zhu Suyao (talk) 12:37, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

在过去的20年里，德中协会是由其多产的主席格雷戈·保罗所塑造，他通过尖锐又精准地分析中西方的共同逻辑，以及分析包括中西方都值得为之奋斗的包括人权在内的普世价值，从而树立了协会的威望。他运用修辞手法进行寓教于乐的演讲，往往是关于一些具有说服力的传统大智慧。比如，分歧往往源于观点的不同而非事物性质的不同，我们可以从保罗和他妻子关于昨天发生之事的对话中可看出。--ZHOUYUJUAN (talk) 12:30, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Zhu Xu 朱旭

Paul is a consequent logician and a real universalist and he has added to Germany’s international reputation as “the land of poets and thinkers”. The process of doing more justice to China today culminates in the cooperation between Chinese and Western scholars at international conferences, in research projects or international book projects like A New Literary History of Modern China, Harvard University Press 2017.

保尔是一位相应的逻辑学家，也是一位真正的普世主义者，他为德国 "诗人和思想家的国度 "的国际声誉添砖加瓦。这个过程中，对待当代中国也变得更加公正了，这激励着中西方的学者在国际会议中合作，在研究项目或国际图书项目中的合作，如2017年哈佛大学出版的《新编中国现代文学史》。--Zhu Xu (talk) 14:45, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

保尔是一位相应的逻辑学家，也是一位真正的普世主义者，他为德国 "诗人和思想家的国度 "的国际声誉添砖加瓦。中西方的学者在国际会议中合作，在研究项目或国际图书项目中合作，如2017年共同编著由哈佛大学出版的《新编中国现代文学史》。在此过程中，他们对待中国的公正态度是前所未有的。--Yang Ziling (talk) 04:07, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Zou Xinyu 邹鑫雨

Europeans (and later US-Americans) have made a contribution to Chinese Studies in general. They were influenced heavily by the idealizers (Jesuits, European philosophers of the enlightenment) and by China-bashers (Hegel, the German emperor...). It took 100 years for a Chinese piece of world literature to be recognized as such in Europe. But today, Chinese literature and culture is recognized with the Nobel Prize and Confucius Institutes do successful work in the whole work promoting and exporting Chinese culture abroad.

总体而言，欧洲人（以及后来的美国人）为“中国学”做出了贡献。 “中国学”曾受到理想主义者（耶稣会士，欧洲启蒙哲学家）和批判中国以赢取政治筹码者（黑格尔，德国皇帝……）的严重影响，中国的一部世界文学历时百年才被欧洲认可。但是今天，中国文学和文化获得了诺贝尔奖，孔子学院在促进向外传播中国文化的工作中取得了成功。--Zou Xinyu2 (talk) 09:37, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Zou Xinyu

总体而言，欧洲人（以及后来的美国人）为“汉学”做出了贡献。 “汉学”曾受到理想主义者（如耶稣会成员，欧洲启蒙哲学家）和中国抨击者（如黑格尔，德国皇帝……）的严重 影响，一部世界文学中的中国作品需要历时百年才被欧洲认可。但是今天，中国文学和文化获得了诺贝尔奖的认可，孔子学院在促进向外传播中国文化的工作中也取得了成功。 --Zhou Yiwen (talk) 11:14, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

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However, we should not overestimate the European contribution. There are still examples of ethnocentrism, even of religiously motivated reading of things into Chinese literature. One of these examples is the 10 volume History of Chinese Literature published in Bonn. In two volumes, the one about the origins of Chinese literature and the one on Chinese poetry, a German sinologist, who formerly was a priest, defines, that the origin of Chinese literature lies in the dialogue of the author with god.

然而，我们不应高估欧洲的贡献。现在仍然有民族中心主义的例子，甚至是出于宗教动机对中国文学作品的解读。在波恩出版的10卷《中国文学史》就是其中之一。德国汉学家在《中国文学起源论》和《中国诗歌论》两卷中，曾任神父的汉学家对中国文学的起源进行了界定:中国文学的起源在于作者与上帝的对话。--Zheng Huajun (talk) 05:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

然而，我们不应高估欧洲的贡献。现在仍有种族中心主义的例子，甚至出于宗教动机解读中国文学。其中一个例子就是波恩出版的10卷《中国文学史》，作者波恩是曾任神父的德国汉学家。他在《中国文学起源》和《中国诗歌》两卷中明确指出，中国文学起源于作者与上帝的对话。--Zhu Xu (talk) 09:39, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

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This reminds us again of the Jesuit reading of things into Chinese texts, it reminds us of the attempts, to impose your own culture on other seemingly backward cultures, in this case even the try to impose the Western god on the Chinese culture of a time, when China had a totally different understanding of the world and of heaven than that of a Christian god. The emergence of Chinese literature comes from songs, speeches and paintings, from the wish to document events, family etc., but not from an encounter with god.

这再次让我们想起耶稣会会士对于中国经文的解读；想起我们试图强加自身的文化于其他看似落后的文化上，当时中国对世界和天堂的理解完全不同于基督教的上帝，在这种情况下我们甚至试图把西方的上帝强加于一个时代的中国文化上。中国文学起源于歌曲，演说和画作；源于期望记录事件，家庭等，而非起源于与上帝的邂逅。--Zhu Suyao (talk) 14:33, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

这再次让我们想起耶稣会会士对于中国经文的解读，它提醒我们那些试图把自己的文化强加给其他看似落后的文化的尝试，在这种情况下，甚至是试图把西方的上帝强加给一个时代的中国文化，当时中国对世界和天堂的理解完全不同于基督教的上帝。中国文学的出现来自于歌曲、演讲和绘画，来自于记录事件、家庭等的愿望，而不是来自与上帝的相遇。--Yuan SHiqi (talk) 06:58, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

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The same German sinologist retranslated the Analects, attributed to Confucius, and translated some of the more than 50 occurrences of “heaven” or “demon/ghost” with the term “god”.[ Here Wolfgang Kubin stands in the tradition of Jean-François Noëlas 1720 and Richard Wilhelm 1925, see: Konfuzius: Gespräche. Transl. Richard Wilhelm. In Kubin’s commentary in the beginning of his identically titled book (Konfuzius: Gespräche Diederichs 2011), he justifies his reading of god into the Analects (p. 10). He translates “shen” as “gods” (p. 215) and claims, Confucius was sacrificing to the gods (p. 30), he understands „guishen“ as „demon and god“ or „spirit and god“ and “tian” as “god of heaven”, “supreme god”, (p. 213).]

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Experts on Confucius also quote the few passages, where Confucius addresses the question of the supranatural like ghosts etc. and analyze that Confucius may have been at best not interested or even negative about the belief in ghosts, while he was positive about the social stability and peace rituals brought for the people.

This reminds us of the fact, that it is to us to make sure that ethnocentrism is still existing today and that science is a field that needs to be aware of and cautious about it. And it needs courage to speak out against it.

孔子专家也引用了一些段落,在这些段落中孔子探讨了像是鬼魂之类的超自然的问题。专家们分析认为孔子充其量可能是不感兴趣,甚至对鬼魂的存在持否定态度，尽管他对仪式给人们带来的社会稳定和和平持积极态度。

这提醒我们一个事实：我们十分确信种族中心主义在今天仍然存在并且科学是需要注意和谨慎的领域，而公开反对它需要勇气。--Yuan SHiqi (talk) 08:12, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

孔子专家也引用了几段话，其中孔子谈到了像鬼这样的超自然问题。并分析说，孔子对鬼神信仰顶多是不感兴趣，甚至是消极的，尽管他对社会稳定和为人民带来的和平仪式是积极的。 这提醒了我们一个事实，那就是，我们要确保种族中心主义在今天仍然存在，科学是一个需要意识到并谨慎对待的领域。公开反对它需要勇气。--Hu Jin (talk) 04:15, 14 November 2020 (UTC)